Wednesday, October 1, 2008

Defend Marriage: Vote YES on Proposition 8!!!

Our friend Bill May, over at Catholics for the Common Good, had an excellent piece published in today's San Francisco Chronicle. Here are some excerpts:

"... the court elevated same-sex marriage to the highest legal class possible: a protected class. That means when the rights of people opposed to same-sex marriage on moral or religious grounds conflict with the rights of same-sex couples, the courts will almost always side with same-sex couples because of the protected class status conferred by the state Supreme Court. Even expressing a view in opposition to same-sex marriage often exposes people to personal attack, ostracism, and even threats of loss of employment for standing for what they understand to be true about marriage. This goes beyond acceptance and tolerance. Many supporters of Proposition 8 are already experiencing these pressures to some extent, but the ruling of the court clears the way for lawsuits and further legislation to penalize people who do not cooperate with the desires of same-sex couples.

Finally, perhaps the most profound consequence will be to our children. California law provides for the teaching of children about marriage. Under the court's ruling, they would have to be taught that there is no distinction between the same-sex marriage and traditional marriage, and it would be discriminatory to view them otherwise. This interferes with a parent's right to teach their children the true meaning of marriage, which is important to their futures. This is the case in Massachusetts, which also legalized same-sex marriage. In one recent and famous case, a teacher taught a second-grade class using a book recounting the story of a prince marrying another prince, rather than a princess. Instructing young children about same-sex marriage in school undermines the rights of parents to approach this subject with their children on their own timetable and according to their family's values and beliefs, religious or otherwise. This is a major concern to California parents.

These are the issues that are fueling the views of voters on this crucial issue. It is no wonder that supporters in every corner of California are preparing to make their voices heard. Everything we as a people hold dear is on the ballot."


Seth said...

Great information about Bill May's article. It is great that so many faith's can unite to defend marriage. I am so grateful for the coalition of good people that are willing to "not be ashamed" of what they believe. Thanks for your great information and the posting of such a useful article. I have put a link to your post on my site: Yes on Proposition 8

Corby Kennard said...

Lies and bigotry.

You are not defending marriage, you are destroying lives. But hey, they aren't like you, so why do you care?


useyourbrain said...

OR this URL for the entire story:

Link to this photo in todays NY Times. Read about these starving children who can be saved for pennies a day. Look at this child and tell me why you are spending over $50 million for faux political reasons, bigotry on something that will not impinge on your own marriage one bit. Look at that child and realize that the $100 million tossed down the tube on this useless fight, could save hundreds of thousands of children -- not the unborn, but the living -- or barely living. How can any of you sleep at night?

Anonymous said...

Gay marriages should be recognized the same as heterosexual marriages. Its BS that bible bangers want to judge and say it doesnt follow the bible but look at everything you are doing that doesnt follow what you preach! Saving children in other countries and even our own has nothing to do with gays getting married. If the world was accepting of everyone no matter what then maybe everyone would get along. Look at what all has happened and how many people have died over religion. A LOT. due to stupidity! stupid religious people who dont know what they want in life. Just following each other and going all in the same WRONG direction! yall are the ones who end up living hell. You say you live great or holy or whatever but in reality you are more miserable and will be miserable for the rest of your life. Face the facts, Gays are everywhere and its not a choice. If "God" created everyone then he created Gays. Gays to be the way they are and treated like everyone else. Its a test dumb A! read a real book. Your the ones who dont pass.

Anonymous said...

I will vote YES on Prop 8. It's about protecting the family and protecting the most sacred institution of marriage.

GuitarTech said...

Proposition 8 is a ridiculous attack on human dignity. The truth is this: Same-sex couples exist, and will continue to exist whether Prop 8 passes or not. Same-sex couples enjoy virtually all the same rights and privileges afforded to male-female unions - with two 'glaring' exceptions; Rights to Receivership, and Visitation Rights!

That's right folks. Modify the California State Constitution so that 'marriages' can only be between males and females, same-sex unions will continue to occur. Only those loving couples cannot inherit their partners (or their own 'joint') wealth and real estate, and those couples cannot visit each other as one lays dying in the hospital.

Is THAT fair? Does THAT sound like a proper practice for HUMANS? Inheritance and Visitation by spouse or next of kin?

That's the bottom line. Vote NO on Proposition 8. Don't let the prejudices of some stodgy old bureaucrat from the 19th century tell you otherwise. Every 'Pro' 8 campaign ad is rife with lies; No church will have to change a damn thing, No church will lose it's tax standing, No school will change the ways it teaches children.

For once in your life - have the compassion to defend basic human rights and dignity.

Vote NO on Proposition 8.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Vote yes on prop 8 or we will be forced to worship at the alter of homosexuality. More churches will be sued for refusing to perform religiously repugnant marriages of homosexuals. More doctors will be sued for refusing to commit morally repugnant impregnations of lesbians. Vote homosexuals out of political office. Recall them, impeach them, for they are the ones who have crafted these laws. We must repeal these laws and stop their march, not to equality, but to dominance.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Seth. All people of good will who care about the common good of society, be they straight or gay, should join in voting Yes on Proposition 8.

Anonymous said...

There are five gay couples who are regulars at my church. In over ten years, they have stayed together and grown in Christ. Two of them have adopted children. Are they sinners? Yes, and so are we all. If they choose to make their commitments lifelong, our laws should allow them and our Church should pray for them. I am voting no on 8.

Suzy said...

I defend a person's right to choice. It's not an up to any institution, organization, religious group or governmental body. It's an individual decision.

Anonymous said...

All the Noise, Noise, Noise!

No matter how loudly and often supporters of same gender marriage attack proponents of traditional marriage, the simple irrefutable fact is that same gender marriage and traditional marriage are not identical, and never will be. Period. Regardless of what happens in the California election.

And no matter what proponents of traditional marriage say, opponents will scream its opposite. I am amazed at the sheer volume of hateful and intolerant comments made by opponents of Proposition 8. To me, this speaks volumes about where bigotry, discrimination, and hate truly exist – in the hearts of people who express themselves with such rage and venom, regardless of their political or sexual persuasion.

So what really is the core issue? Is it equal rights? Is it social acceptance of homosexuality? And what about the children?

Equal Rights

In the majority opinion written by Chief Justice Ronald George overturning the voter approved statute defining marriage as between a man and a woman, he stated that “California . . . in recent years has enacted comprehensive domestic partnership legislation under which a same-sex couple may enter into a legal relationship that affords the couple virtually all of the same substantive legal benefits and privileges, and imposes upon the couple virtually all of the same legal obligations and duties, that California law affords to and imposes upon a married couple.”

Furthermore, in that same opinion, he also wrote, "from the beginning of California statehood, the legal institution of civil marriage has been understood to refer to a relationship between a man and a woman . . . and the marriage statute adopted by the California Legislature during its first session clearly assumed that the marriage relationship necessarily involved persons of the opposite sex.” Hmmmm . . .

The California Family Code, in Section 297.5, paragraphs a, b, and c (which are identical, except for the references in parentheses) clarifies the legal rights and responsibilities of registered domestic partners are entitled to in California. “Registered (and former registered, and surviving registered) domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses (and former spouses, and a widow or widower).

California’s voter information guide contains arguments and rebuttals for both sides of the argument. In the rebuttal to the argument in favor of Proposition 8, opponents wrote, “California statutes clearly identify nine real differences between marriage and domestic partnerships.”

What are these differences? Be specific people, don’t just throw up a smoke screen, wave your arms, and cry foul. If you want to solve the equal rights problem, say exactly what the specific needs are so that legislation can be passed that will provide the specific liberties being sought. Equality California is a leading organization founded in 1998 to pursue equal rights for homosexual people in California. The organization’s website states that, “In the past 10 years, Equality California has strategically moved California from a state with extremely limited legal protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) individuals to a state with some of the most comprehensive civil rights protections in the nation. In the past decade, EQCA has successfully passed more than 45 pieces of civil rights legislation for the LGBT community – more than any other statewide LGBT organization in the nation. Most sections of California law prohibit discrimination based on a long list of protected classes, including sexual orientation, gender and gender identity. LGBT Californians are protected from discrimination in securing employment and housing, accessing government services and participating in state-funded activities. LGBT people are also protected under the state’s hate crime law.” This organization, and many others like it, is not going to go away, so it is safe to assume that they will continue to pursue equal rights for LGBT individuals in California until true legal equality is achieved. No problem. It’s already in process.

Social Acceptance of Homosexuality

Opponents of Proposition 8 claim that they are not looking for societal acceptance of homosexuality, they simply want homosexuals to be free to marry the person they love. If true equality under law can be achieved for both traditional married couples and civil unions between same gender couples, and if there are only nine differences that remain to be legislated, then the discrimination argument can be resolved equitably in the near future. Same gender couples can then truly receive all the benefits and responsibilities of traditionally married couples in every respect EXCEPT in name. Will that be acceptable to the LGBT community? If so, then let’s settle this mess and get on with other pressing business. If not, then it reveals the lie about what is opponents of Proposition are really seeking - societal acceptance of homosexuality. And on this subject, the people have every right to vote and determine what society should accept or not accept without being called a bigot or homophobe.

Let the voice of the people decide! But separate the two issues – equal rights and societal acceptance. Opponents KNOW that if the issues were separate, they would FAIL. Many people are just plain disgusted with and tired of hearing about gays and homosexuality. They object to being told, “It’s going to happen now, whether you like it or not.” Thus, opponents focus the spotlight on the “fairness” and “equality” arguments, and sweep the issue of societal acceptance under the carpet. Yet the societal acceptance is insidious. It has the real potential to create problems that are just beginning to be seen in places that have legalized same gender marriage.

The Future

All over the Internet, you can read articles claiming that proponents of Proposition 8 are using scare tactics and outright lies about its implications on children to win its passage. In researching this subject, I found that there have been many efforts over the years to pass California laws having to do with the promotion of homosexuality in our schools. Some few have passed, but the majority failed. I am surprised that few have publicly observed that the failure of most of these measures to pass was likely related to California’s recognition at the time that marriage was between a man and a woman. In other words, that definition, which became California law when voters passed it overwhelmingly in 2000, was an important bulwark in the legal defense of striking down proposed legislation that would mandate same gender education of our young children. That fence has been blown down now, as it were, by the May 2008 judicial fiat. If Proposition 8 does not pass, will the proposals for new legislation mandating exposing our children to increased education about LGBT issues cease? What does history already show? Any rational adult will recognize that if anything, such efforts will ONLY INCREASE, and find greater likelihood of passage. Scare tactics? We are talking about the future of our children here.

To those who say that children in schools will not be affected by the defeat of Proposition 8, I say, what makes you a prophet? After the recent catastrophic global economic meltdown, former financial demigod Alan Greenspan has now admitted a fundamental error in his beliefs about the issue of deregulation in our banking and financial system that was a major factor in the economic collapse. OOPS! That mess has been totally devastating to millions of people, and will take years to clean up. We are all affected, and will be for many years to come. The multitudinous ramifications of legalized same gender marriage won’t be fully understood or visible for years, but by then it may be too late to prevent major problems that can affect everyone in California. To even think otherwise is to be blind to real life. Take a look at what is already happening where same sex marriage was legalized years ago, and you can see some of the harbingers.

Discrimination, which is often used to mean unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice, is wrong. But the word discrimination also means to discern qualities and recognize the differences between things. By this definition, we all discriminate every day as a necessary part of making decisions. And recognizing the qualities and differences between traditional and same gender marriage should not mean that we are all forced to equalize them. Some allowances should be made for the differences. In this regard, California already has the most tolerant and non-discriminatory laws regarding same gender couples that can be found anywhere in the U.S. Proposition 8 will not change this. If there are more laws that need to be passed to provide true equality, then let’s get them out in the open, deal with them, and stop the arm waving and name calling. California has already proven that it is willing to provide equal rights. We can maintain this tradition without redefining marriage for everyone just because a tiny fraction of the population really, really wants to.

I believe we need to be tolerant, respectful, non-discriminatory, sensitive, and loving towards those of same gender persuasion (see, no name calling or rage), but without accepting same sex unions as being socially equal to the institution of traditional male-female marriage. That’s why I will vote Yes on Proposition 8.

Daniel said...

If Prop 8 were TRULY about "defending marriage" wouldn't it be a proposition about making divorce illegal?

Using children, scare tactics, & lies in "Yes on 8" advertising is utterly shameful.

And to say that churches will be sued if gay marriage exists is preposterous. When was the last time you heard of a Rabbi getting sued for not marrying a Jew & non-Jew? Or a Catholic priest being sued for not marrying someone who has been divorced.

Jesus said very simple, yet powerful things.. take care of the poor, the needy, etc. Why are so many of "Christian" faith using this much energy and money on Prop 8. Surely Jesus would say you are going about it all wrong. It's really quite sad.....

Anonymous said...

This crap isn't worth the paper it was writian down on. Marriages are a free right to all americans, may they be gay or not. My philosphy is 'You can marry who you damn well please, just don't have sex on my lawn.'

NO_ON_8 said...

All of you who vote yes on prop 8 are dumbasses!!
None of you have any right to tell anybody gay or straight who they can or cannot love,
This is not about teaching it in school,
Whether they teach it or not; what 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th grade kid is even thinking about getting married? you close-minded people are just pissed they gay people are married, all they want to do is be happy and all you assholes are making it hard for them,
Are they really hurting you??????
Are they taking anything away from you that you don't already have?????
This just shows how much time you losers have to try to take other peoples' rights away
Leave them alone

Anonymous said...

In response to your section that reads: "California law provides for the teaching of children about marriage. Under the court's ruling, they would have to be taught that there is no distinction between the same-sex marriage and traditional marriage, and it would be discriminatory to view them otherwise."

Fiction: Teaching children about same-sex marriage will happen here unless we pass Prop 8.
Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education. And no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it.
California’s top educators including Superintendent of Schools Jack O’Connell and California Teachers all agree: Prop 8 has nothing to do with education.

Anonymous said...

The fact that so many people would be willing to destroy marriage disgusts me. Gay marriage is wrong. Marriage is a union between a man and woman. If you are gay move to Canada to get married.

Daniel said...

No one is trying to destroy marriage. Gay people just want to be equal like everyone else in this country (that is in fact what our Constitution states, is it not?)

How does gay marriage destroy, harm, or affect in any way your heterosexual marriage?

It makes no sense.

History will look back on this in the same way we look back on slavery, and treating women less than men.

Anonymous said...

ou are going to burn in hell